McCain (lower right) with his squadron in 1965. (US Navy photo)

Ask about McCain’s Navy career, aside from the POW part of it
ASK THIS | September 02, 2008

McCain has made his military experience a key reason to vote for him. Reporters should examine his military records, including reports on air mishaps he was involved in before he was shot down over Hanoi. And McCain should see to it that all reports are made public.


By Barry Sussman
bsussman@niemanwatchdog.org

Setting the stage for the Republican convention, the Washington Post ran a special eight-page section with a profile of John McCain, more than 10,000 words long, by writer Michael Leahy, titled “A Navy Life Foretold.” Toward the end, after more than 9,000 words, Leahy mentioned, without laboring over them, three near-catastrophes McCain had as a pilot. Reporters should look into these incidents. They should do so soon, and not wait until just before the election, or after it. It’s unusual for military pilots, let alone presidential candidates, to have so many mishaps in a relatively short career of flying What do they tell us, if anything, about McCain’s judgment, ability and character?

The first incident occurred during flight training in Texas in 1958. As Leahy described it, McCain, “working on his landings one day…felt his engine die and, within seconds, was plummeting into Corpus Christi Bay.” He was momentarily knocked out, then regained consciousness and was able to escape from the cockpit.

The second occurred two years later. McCain had completed flight training and was deployed to the Mediterranean. “He was flying low one day when he decided to have some fun,” Leahy wrote. He dropped so low that he knocked down power lines over southern Spain, cutting off electricity in the area. McCain later referred to his own behavior as “daredevil clowning” and said he had created “a small international incident.”

The third came in 1965. McCain, stationed at Norfolk, flew solo in a Navy trainer plane to the Army-Navy football game in Philadelphia. On the way back his engine quit. McCain ejected, landed safely and the plane crashed into a wooded area.

Leahy wrote that McCain had a “desultory performance” in the air. On the face of it, the incident in Spain stands out as an example of rash, poor judgment. The other two also raise questions. How much was a problem with the equipment, how much was pilot error? What about McCain’s responses: What do they tell us about his temperament?

The Navy investigates all such events and keeps records of them. Included as a rule are accounts by the people involved, which generally are not made public. One of the first steps for reporters would be to ask McCain to have the Navy release statements he made—or to release them himself. Reporters should also file Freedom of Information Act requests with the Navy for all documents pertaining to McCain’s crashes and incidents.

A journalist with experience in such research says the files should contain “accident/incident/safety reports” and first-hand accounts. In addition, this journalist notes, “given the age of the incidents, it would appear the records for them would be in the Naval Historical Center, and FOIAs go through the Chief of Naval Operations. FOIA information can be found on the Web site of the Naval Safety Center.”

Reporters also might seek a Privacy Act waiver to obtain all of McCain’s military and health records, including those from the Naval Academy. McCain and his supporters have made his military career—his knowledge and judgment—a key to his campaign, a main reason to vote for him. His behavior as a young rebel is widely known and wouldn’t surprise or shock anyone. McCain wants to be president; he should be willing to have these records made public.

In addition to these incidents, McCain was aboard the USS Forrestal off the Vietnam coast in July 1967 and narrowly escaped with his life in one of the most deadly events in American Navy history. He was in his plane when a rocket aboard the ship was set off. It was said to have slammed into McCain’s bomb-laden plane or the one behind it, resulting in a fire and multiple explosions that killed more than 130 sailors. It took almost 24 hours to extinguish the blaze. It was a few months afterward that McCain’s A-4E Skyhawk was taken down by a surface-to-air missile over Hanoi.

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We should also see his fitness reports
Posted by nitpicker
09/02/2008, 08:06 AM

If he wants to use his military experience as a reason to elect him, his fitness reports would show what his superiors thought of his performance, McCain has not released them.


And FOIA his medical records
Posted by Bill
09/02/2008, 08:46 AM

Last May reporters were given only three hours to look at 1,500 pages of McCain's medical records.
All is not what it seems with this man.


Records of others
Posted by Mort Schagrin
09/02/2008, 11:38 AM

How many accidents do other Naval aviators have before they are grounded?
What's the average accident rate?


attorney
Posted by Lee
09/02/2008, 11:53 AM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GLWEDMLmjKk ...
A fellow POW and fellow classmate talks about Senator McCain's military experience


The Truth can't wait
Posted by Truthteller
09/02/2008, 11:57 AM

Open his records.Most naval flight students would have washed out with any accident.

His father & grandfather were Admirals.

He's no hero. He collaborated with the enemy.See:
http://collateralnews.tv/index.php/collateral-news ...

Most injured received no medical attention.He was cast & given smokes


What's wrong with a true American
Posted by Mark Irwin
09/02/2008, 12:00 PM

I think that your column was bull ****. It's not McCain's fault that the democratic pick for prersident is a man who is not proud of his country nor, that he is an American. I would love to see how great democratic presidents from the past like FDR would have thought about your article. I'm sad that the democrats have to attack McCains service because that's all they have on him. I'm proud to say I support John McCain becaus efor one, he is a great man for the presidency and also because I don't believe in that Obama's change is going to help since we don't know what the change is.



Posted by LCDR Wm Walker USN (Ret)
09/02/2008, 12:03 PM

John Kerry provided copies of his fitness Reports. Why doesn't McCain show us his Fitness Reports?.More Importantly.........WHERE ARE THOSE THAT FLEW WITH HIM AND WERE CLOSE TO HIM ?.......What does his Executive Officer of the Squadron he Commanded for a year have to say about him"?,,,,,,,so far McCain is just like Bush, no one to step forward to say they served with him.
PS: There are records of every Crash as the Navy Investigates to provide "LESSONS LEARNED" for all other Aviator Officers on flying status.


Drive by comment...
Posted by Jolly Sapper
09/02/2008, 12:28 PM

In regards to what some of the other service members/officers may think about McCain, there was an NPR report a month or two back that talked about McCain's time as a squadron CO.

Here is the link :

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?story ...

Here another link to a DKos diary talking about this story:

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2008/7/8/14333/77423 ...

Food for thought, if nothing else.


Take your head out of the sand...or worse.
Posted by SanMiguel
09/02/2008, 12:29 PM

If you don't know what Senator Obama's plan is for change, then you are either very slow on comprehension or you've had your head in the sand.

I hear this comment over and over from the right wing constituents. Have they heard nothing this man has said on the campaign trail? Get serious!

You like where we are headed today under this "dictator", then you'll love where mcAncient would drag us. This country is headed for ruin, and you can help hasten that by putting this "POW...and nothing more" in the White House.


Open the Records
Posted by AmericanInsurgent
09/02/2008, 12:38 PM

I have made the argument that McCain's military records should be released and that the media should publish detais of McCain's 5 crashes as a naval aviator on DailyKos.

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2008/7/31/135457/649 ...

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2008/8/14/1210/56671 ...

I hope you have more luck with this than I did.



I don't get it.
Posted by bert
09/02/2008, 12:55 PM

Why do so many Americans love their leaders to be total morons or children of privledge? McCain graduated virtualy bottom of his class (and he crashed several planes and managed to get shot down, any connection there, I wonder?) Bush was a C/D student. Both had every possible opportunity open to them. And both are determined to ruin this country. Wake up people. Let's for once pick someone with some smarts and who has actually had to work for what he's achieved.


ex-usn
Posted by ral
09/02/2008, 01:09 PM

McCain has parlayed his POW past into political gold, yet he did nothing particularly heroic outside of surviving captivity.

I do not diminish what the man went through as a captive, but I do question the spin that has been put on his time in the military as he has climbed the political ladder. He's being presented as a great military man
but did he really display the character and judgement required of a leader by virtue of not dying in captivity?

McCain got captured after crashing in Nam, after the USS Forrestal disaster.

And the Forrestal is perhaps the most important reason why his complete military records must be made public.

Was McCain screwing around and did he ignite the bombs that started the fire on the Forrestal by doing a "hot start"?

Did he then leave the burning carrier deck after escaping from his jet and not return to help his fellow crewmen control the fire?

An aircraft carrier deck is one of the most dangerous places on earth to be, safety measures are repeatedly pounded into every crewman's head. If McCain started the fire, even accidently, he should have faced charges.

Instead of facing charges, was McCain immediately transferred off the Forrestal?

Did McCain take an injured man's space on the 1st evac helicopter?

If McCain was suddenly transferred off the Forrestal, in the midst of the worst at-sea disaster the US has ever had, the implications are damning.

134 men died in that disaster, the ship was severely damaged, hundreds of men were injured, some severely burned.

The idea that an officer would suddenly be transferred off a ship in the middle of a disaster of that magnitude is unheard of. Other pilots & officers were dead or wounded in the fire. Every single officer would have been needed.

A command would not be likely to stop in the midst of all that to arrange for a sudden transfer of an uninjured officer, unless that officer was deemed to either be a danger to the ship or in danger if he remained on the ship.

Was he ordered off the Forrestal for his own safety, or to protect the Admiral's reputation by covering up for his son?

It's bad enough if McCain was responsible for the fire, but if he walked away from those crewmen, never faced charges, and lied about it for decades......

It's all about character.









John McCain + Sarah Palin =
Posted by Lt. Col. Gen. Brig. Gen. Dick Cheney
09/02/2008, 01:55 PM

end of the word. Seriously, McCain is even more unfit to lead the country than the current infantile occupant of the White House. And just a heartbeat away from the presidency he chooses a vice president who has been overseas ONCE!, believes in creationism, is a active member of a secessionist party, and is being criminally investigated for abuse of office. That ticket has win written all over it!!


Promote Accomplishments
Posted by clarence swinney
09/02/2008, 04:44 PM

Democrats stop arguing. Go positive with record. Promo the Party to elect congress.
for details-

google
clarence swinney
+ 82 Democrat
+ democrats create wealth
+ praise clinton
+ Clinton vs reagan
+ clinton terrorism record
+ reagan scandals
+ how to identify a republican
+ bush econovomit
+ reagan firsts
+ tax & spend
+ clinton charcter





Posted by Candido Perez
09/02/2008, 06:05 PM


McCain was so little regarded that he was never made a fighter pilot but relegated to a single engine, propeller driven bomber before being upgraded to the Skyhawk, a diminutive but effective jet bomber. He was certifiably gung ho because after the Forrestal was taken out of service he joined another squadron aboard the USS Oriskany from which he was shot down.




Doesn't make sense to me
Posted by wordgrl
09/02/2008, 10:58 PM

What makes no sense to me is the mythology about McCain's refusal to leave the Hanoi Hilton when offered a chance supposedly because his torturers respected American authority enough to give him a pass because his father was an Admiral. Maybe this is true, but it sure doesn't make sense to me. How thoroughly has this been checked out?


Other questions to be asked...
Posted by RVBuilder
09/04/2008, 04:49 PM

I am neither a Republican or a McCain supporter but these questions, answered outside the context of the time and environment in which these events occurred, only reveal the biases of the questioner. Engine failures are hardly uncommon in military aviation, particulary during the time of McCain's Navy career. And while he demonstrated a spectacular lack of airmanship during the incident in Spain, some probing may very well reveal that this kind of conduct certainly wasn't limited to John McCain.

Ask *all* the relevant questions, not just ones that can be made to support a preconceived opinion.


Lots of reading out there
Posted by Nash_Insecurity
09/06/2008, 02:01 AM

I highly recommend a very well written book by Robert Coram called "American Patriot" about Bud Day, who outranked McCain in Hanoi Hilton, and shared a cell with him. Also describes guys who did return early, why and how they were treated by military before, and after, all POWs were released.

Coram lays out how McCain (and Day) were truly tortured, psychologically broke, but managed to hide key military secrets and deceive their captors. Yet Day is in favor of torture _despite evidence that it doesn't produce accurate information._ McCain claims to be opposed, but he has take no effort to investigate Bush and Cheney's signing statement, or to prevent the CIA from torturing.

I'm surprised a guy who graduated at bottom of his class could get into naval aviation program - unless strings were pulled. It was very competitive to become a naval aviator. How many better qualified candidates were passed over to move McCain to the list?

I'm also surprised that he could destroy not 1, not 2, but 3 aircraft, two through stunts and poor decision-making, and _still maintain flying status._

A former partner of mine was a backseater in F-4s (that's a radar intercept and electronic counter measures job in a 2 seat fighter-bomber). Even though he was on a carrier flying missions over Vietnam, he was afraid of merely misplacing his .45 side arm and losing his flying status. McCain had admiral's son status.

I think the evidence is clear that McCain had no hand in the USS Forrestal accident, and loss of his aircraft.

To me the key issues in McCain's bio, and his recurring modus operandi, is making rash decisions in high risk situations and "living with the consequences." Since the end of the Cold War, presidents have rarely had to make split-second decisions. Nearly every decision can be strategized, researched and gamed over hours, if not months.

The choice of Palin is typical of McCain's kind of decision making, not using time to plan wisely and having to make a rash decision. Thanks, but no thanks to playing roulette with my future.


Hey RVBuilder, I'm working on an RV-7 myself.


Promotion denied
Posted by earwig
09/11/2008, 11:39 AM

Evidently McCain's navy superiors deemed him unworthy of flag rank, causing one to wonder how he can claim fitness for the role of Commander-in-Chief.


MCCAIN'S NAVY RECORD
Posted by KATTT
09/23/2008, 02:20 PM

THIS NEEDS TO COME TO FULL FRONT!WHY HAS IT NOT?


None
Posted by Bill Hunt
10/03/2008, 09:01 PM

I'm an old Naval aviator myself. If what McCain said about his "heroic" mission the day he was shot down was so he would be subject to court martial. "I went beyond my mission..." One may not risk the success of the mission going off on one's own risking a billion dollar airplane.

We can probably chalk that up to political lies, the kind of lies that are moral. Evidently he grossly overstated the pain and suffering of his captivity as well. NBC evening news found the nurse that "splinted" his fractures immediately after he was pulled out of a shallow pond where he fell and she got him to the hospital where he was properly treated by physicians. She said that no one laid a hand on him. She also said she had protected him from one old man with a stick that thought he should be hit because he was the enemy.

His guard captain said he liked him and after the "required" debate on the virtues of communism they were good friends. Maybe the captain was lying? Was McCain hog tied and left all night lone or is that another moral lie?

I think it's a mistake for him to harp on his military record just like it was for Kerry. One of his fellow prisoners has come forward saying that he's not qualified to be president because he's a hot head -don't trust him around the button to launch the missles. The other fellow from Arizona, Barry Goldwater tried the military expert routine and got the big reject.

Bush was elected because the economy was so good the country could vote the abortion issue. Now that the economy is an abortion maybe McCain should follow Bush's lead.


Questions needing answers
Posted by Dave Wolf
10/04/2008, 02:41 AM

I base these questions on having read the "Veterans Against McCain," web page and what I have heard regarding McC's father's opinion. It's enough to make one wonder and want to do more research:

1. Why did some of his fellow POW's nickname him the "Song bird."

2. Why did he not receive a promotion in rank and salary, as did most all of the other POWs during and after captivity?

3. What did his father have to say about his son in some of the Admiral's briefings?

4. Are there really transmission tapes stored in the vaults of the Voice of America on which McCain revealed vital information to the North Vietnamese?

5. What was the McCain Bill which prevented information about POWs, including himself, from being available to families and the public?

6. Are there reasons, other than "heorism" which made him chose not to be released when the opportunity presented itself?


McCain did Serve... Obama gets a big fat ZERO!
Posted by Tim Lemo
10/06/2008, 07:51 PM

I wish people would open their eyes what is happening with this election. I would pick McCain over anyone from the south side of Chicago. I know what kind of BS Obama was in and he just used the race factor to get what he wanted. He claims that he helped unemployed steel workers from the plants that were shutting down. Funny, no one can seem to find a steel worker that knew Obama.

Everyone claims McCain this, McCain that... You get bayonetted in the leg after being shot down and see what that feel like.

Obama wants to give the UN 70plus BILLION to offset the "world inequities". The corrupt supporting the corrupt... He never mentions THAT plan. Where does he think he will get the money?

He finds it with the middle class American because a lot out there refuse to believe that someone that falls to the left of Mao is running for the Dems and they keep toting the party lne for the Dems when the party was hijacked long time ago under the guise of "benefits" and Social reform.

America better wake up and soon and look at where this guy comes from... Chicago (Leaders in corruption)Illinois (Look at who Rezco was pals with, Obama and the present governor of Illinois).

His election committee consists of the existing Chicago political machine. I will tell you what will happen if Obama gets in the office. You will see all sorts of Chicago cronies begin to occupy high positions in the government.

This article is a slam on someone that did seve in the military. Obama cannot hold a match to it. Period.


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